are the same. a former congressman doug shown and a pollster for bill clinton and joining us live remote from beautiful west palm beach florida, packdel. and a former pollster for president jimmy carter who is hanging out with the rich and beautiful people. so i'm going to go last, pat, just because of that. >> okay. >> doug, look. there's a lame duck session before the fiscal cliff hits. it's really brief. there's a bunch of holidays. can a grand bargain really be hammered out? >> i hope so. bottom line, we need one. the decline in the stock market last week said that the markets and the financial communities are not going to be tolerant if we don't get a grand market. bottom line, i think the republicans have to cave in on of and be willing to increase revenue, even increase rates, pivot the conversation to entitlement reform and spending cuts, but bottom line the president has them over a barrel. >> john, i think they will kick it down the road. an interim deal that simply post bones all of the elements of the fiscal cliff for three months. and gym baker of two admissions pointed that out.